This is the discipline of freedom podcast with your host. Eilish So I'm recording today's episode. Um, the Pisces full moon, the lunar eclipse in Pisces. Pisces. It's the sign. That. As one step in the real world and another step in the mystical. It's the fish swimming in opposite directions. It wants to know. We'll go to the ether. Oh, we're going to come back into the material world. And the invitation really is to step into that space of flow, to step into that space of surrender. No surrender is. It's not a passive space. It's just, it's a space where. You surrender to what is, as I often say, Suffering is optional and it begins as soon as you begin to fight with reality. And this is really the invitation about like really. Tuning in. To your essence, coming back to your center. And this is best to be done before you begin your day. Is for, to be in that space to bring yourself into that space where you. Access your messages of mind. So the first thing in the morning, I've been practicing light therapy. So I get out, I see the sunrise. Then I move my body and then I come into this space where I meditate. And from that space of meditation, I journal. So the concept behind this is that. When we go to bed at night. Everything that has happened. Churns through. Our subconscious and as you know, 99% of what we do is running from our subconscious. And. By getting up. In the morning before you. Do anything before you check your email before you. Um, I have a conversation before you. Get down to work. Clear your consciousness so that you are entering your data clean. You're not bringing yesterday into today. And this is the whole concept of doing yoga first thing in the morning. So you move the energy through the body. Then you sit and you meditate the whole purpose of yoga is moving the energy through the body. The energy has to go somewhere so that when you finally come to meditate, You can sit still. This allows you to go into the space of of heartlessness essentially. And that allows new information to come through. And it allows you to enter your day in a clean space. Judy Cameron's morning pages is all about this as well. It's just dumping whatever's there. Let him go, go. So then when you begin your day, you're coming from this clean. Creative space. Um, today I'm talking with Nicholas criticals. Who I first heard on a podcast with, um, things for us who has a design your life podcast. Vince runs the frost collective, which is a design agency in Sydney. that does a lot of work in branding and placemaking, I think it's called these days. And I heard this guy, Nick criticals, and I just fell in love with him. I just thought, oh my God, you are just the most beautiful. He have a big and in. Our conversation. He compounded that first impression I had of him. He's the creative director of Woolworths. It's a south African based company. We all know Woolworths. If you're in Australia you may buy your groceries there. But he speaks so highly and so beautifully of them and the opportunities that they give him as a creative person. So I hope you enjoy this conversation. I certainly loved us. It was such a pleasure to speak with him. So let's get into it Hello. Hi. It's a delight to have you here. Amazing. Yes. I've actually really been looking forward to this and it's so nice not to have to prepare anything or to just to come in and just to Have a wonderful chat with someone that's shares passion about various things as well. So it's amazing. Do you want to do camera or do you want to just do audio? Hi. I've got the same glasses. Oh, I do. Mine are Cadis, you know, that Spanish brand? Yeah. So I, I have a torn calf muscle. So I'm in bed because I walked far too much yesterday. Oh, my God. Terrible. Oh, it's awful. Like, my foot is just terrible. It actually happened a friend of mine gave me a massage just before I was going to go on the big light to light walk. A hike for, 20 or 30 kilometers a day. And she gave me a massage. And I haven't been able to walk properly since. It sounds productive, Kelly. Anyway so I'm, I'm elevating my foot today. So I'm very excited that you're here. I did listen a little with the Vince one again, and I realized we've got even more in common. Oh wow. Amazing. Yeah, yeah. No, totally. What I want to talk to you about is essentially is, you know, what I'm really fascinated about is how people come to do what they do. And. The flow of their lives, how there's an intuitive flow. And there's, there's, there's a beautiful Spanish poet called Antonio Machado. And he talks about like path maker. There is no path. You make the path by walking this path. By walking, you make the path. And I'm a real believer in that. I'm a designer. graphic designer head of a branding agency in Sydney for probably 10, 15 years. And but I've done a number of different things and it's always been sort of driven by this kind of intuitive pull, you know and it seems we both are yogis. You understand that as well. So the first, and we'll work with your chart and I'll ask questions and you can ask any questions that you have about your chart, because concept of astrology is, is this is fate and then there's free will. So how I term that is amor fati, which is Nietzsche, you know, was the first, I think, to coin that term, which is loving your fate. And then it's like, how are you going to choose to experience it, you know? And I think that is Because we get to choose our own adventure and you know, what is, what is life if it's that one great big daring adventure. And, and so it's seen in your chart, what are your gifts and what are your challenges? And it's like, how have you integrated? those gifts and those challenges to create what you've created. And very often there's moments of illumination. There may not be, I don't know how you're going to experience this, but I'm very excited for to look at it in this way. And thank you so much for being here. No, thank you. I mean, it's an absolute pleasure and it's a privilege. So always when I, whenever I talk either publicly or on a podcast or whatever it might be, even the smallest presentation to a massive presentation to a huge auditorium, I always am incredibly thankful to have that opportunity. And it's something I don't take for granted because it's you didn't get there by mistake. Obviously you. And you, you work hard at certain things, but then when people give you opportunities and you accept them, I've got a big thing about saying yes, trying to say yes to everything. Maybe it's a little bit ridiculous, but when you do accept and you accept them, It's, I'm, I'm always hugely appreciative because it's, it's basically just someone just giving you more opportunities and more to kind of, as you said, map your life differently. So, yeah. Great. Oh, thank you. And it's wonderful. So I'm going to share your chart and then we can talk to your chart, and then I'll ask questions as we go. But one of the first questions that I always lead it and I think that it's really an important question. Bye. Bye. Bye. Coming from a spiritual tradition, Seven years is a cycle of consciousness and 11 years is a cycle of intelligence and 18 years is a physical cycle. And when those three come together, there's monstrous change. The first one is really obvious is 18 to 22, so there's an integration process that occurs. The next one is 33 to 36. And then the next one is So, that said, what was valued, where was the emphasis, you grew up in South Africa, I know, at a time of absolute turbulence yeah, so what was valued? What would you say, the pull throughs in your family? Well, I think the most incredible thing was that I valued how my parents had a very sort of stoic approach to getting somewhere in life. And actually, Creating benefits for other people, opportunities for other people. And in an almost sort of unwavered and sort of you know, very thankless approach to certain things which I valued immensely. In some respects, it was detrimental to myself because I didn't grow up my, with my father like doting on me or my parents doting. You know, I actually just saw how much value it came through. My parents actually helping other people. And, and it's really a consequence of the, the turmoil we grew up in. I mean, my parents were both academics and my father was helping a lot of people who were in the struggle against apartheid. Literally looking after certain people in a house almost like hiding them from the police. So it was crazy times off on certain aspects. My phone was tapped. I mean, it was, but through all of that, we just maintained an amazing sort of family connection. And you know, we lived through it. And I was obviously growing up as a white South African. I was privileged in many respects. So I had that benefit, which I don't, I don't disregard at all. But at the same time I was aware of what was going on, unlike many other white South Africans, they were almost like sheltered and blinkers on. I had, I was in full sort of AK reality of what was going on because of my parents. And that's I'm actually really thankful for it. Because it, allowed me to have sort of to not grow up in a very sort of spoilt sort of, you know, privileged environment, but still have everything I needed, all the love I needed all the attention I needed. And both my parents had very different directions essentially in terms of what they would give to me. So amazing in terms of, of that sort of connection. I don't know if that answers your question, but I'm just sort of feeling through What you're saying. No, there's, there are no wrong questions. Are there, and I think that's what's the beauty of, of not having something prepared. What's your academics in? So my father is a sort of a qualified physicist but he ended up getting through that lecturing in related sciences. And then eventually he became fascinated in education and how education would develop people and then he championed a, a movement called experiential learning in a sort of. Early mid to late eighties and worked with some incredible people around the world. understanding where experiential learning was, was getting. So I have a a strong connection in experiential learning and understanding why experiential learning is so powerful. And that's probably, I mean, it's, it's so incredible how you might not follow the exact same path as where your parents or how your upbringing was, but like certain things. entrenched in certain ways. So I've got a very strong in my career. Now, what I do, I have an incredible connection with experience and design and how experiential design and experiential retail, for example, are so much more important than actually just something as transactional. And I've taken that all the way through my approach and I believe in a completely subconscious way, but I'm conscious, but subconscious, if that makes any sense. My mother also she's a, librarian by trade but works in science libraries and school libraries completely bookish, obviously. So, I mean, that's like yeah, that's in an educational environment but in a very sort of, how can I put it, a very left field approach to education in an educational environment, not a very traditional one. Which is amazing. It makes me think of Ken Robinson, the guy who wrote The Elements. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. And, and how many children in your family? Because I think it's always interesting to kind of go with that. Where you land and family. I have a sister. And she is also in education. She's a principal at a school in Bath in England. Oh, beautiful city. Yeah, well, she was a principal in a school in South Africa and now she's like a senior sort of education teacher in primary school in Bath in England. And she also, so I mean, kind of like, interestingly enough, came from a family of educators. Well, what a, what a beautiful way though, because I mean, I heard when I listened to the Vince podcast and that you grew up with ADHD. Which is amazing in a way, one would think that may have driven your father into that sense of, okay, I want to understand this and I want to understand different way that my son is learning because, you know, the traditional ways don't work for ADHD. I have a doctor who keeps on saying to me, come on, you must be ADHD. He's never done the full test he says anyone who's doing anything interesting is ADHD. Yeah, I mean, it's like, and I think sadly in the eighties, growing up in the eighties, ADHD was often seen as a curse. And like, it's just resolved with a whole lot of chemicals and medicine, whatever it was. But I really believe that ADHD, what I've realized is that ADHD is an exceptional. It's, a gift. It's almost like a superpower. And if you can understand that as a superpower and I've, I'd love to be out now and I've tried to tell this to people who, who has all my kid is ADHD. You should be so blessed. You actually, literally your child has a superpower and it's like, it's insane. If you can actually understand that you ADHD and add certain levels of discipline into your life that actually can manage that it's remarkable. I mean, this morning I would work at five o'clock. I did an hour and a half training session on my bike. I've made school lunches. I took my kids to school. I listened to my I did like seven minutes of meditation whilst having my tea in the morning. I, it, I mean, I've done all of this. It's just gone past eight o'clock and it's just thanks to it. HD, I'm convinced of it. I really am. It is an extraordinary thing yes, it is a superpower and it is a superpower if you bring in those disciplines and if you bring in those systems and find those systems that work for you. Looking at your chart are we going to go with 6am? Because that makes you an Aquarian Ascendant. And the Aquarian Ascendant is, it's an aspirational sign. It's rebellious, the maverick, wants to create a better world. And you have Pisces in your second house. That way, whereas if we go later in the day, it'll be Pisces and you'd have Pisces Sun and Pisces rising and you're rising is how you lead, it's like how other people perceive you. And it's your identity, it's your body, it's your physical, and it's your ego. so astrology is a language of symbols. And it's really a study of time and light. And what's really interesting about it is, is that you can look and say, okay, this is the fate. If we look at a birth chart and then you can look at timings and see, okay, so this happened at this point in time. You know, a planet would have moved over my natal chart at a specific point. Next time, if that happens, I can see begin to track cycles. I'm a big believer in that there's rhythms and cycles and everything. The ruler of your charge being Aquarius would be Saturn, which comes back to the subject of discipline. And, you know, and having, and, and it's in your third house, which is in the house of which is in the sign of Aries. So what, how astrology works is we've got the 12 signs and their personalities, they express themselves in particular ways. And then there's 12 houses and they each represent an aspect of your life. The moment you were born, the moment you first, you know, looked up and, and so, okay, this is a beautiful world, you know, is this all they've done being an architect? That's your ascendant. And then the planets basically are characters and like, characters, they express themselves differently depending on what area of life or what area of your chart they're in. So we'll just talk through, your trajectory and and just ask any questions at any point in time, and your first with the ninth house are considered the houses of purpose and Vedic astrology, even though what we're doing here is we're really looking at modern astrology. The first house is how you lead. So Aquarius is very kind of, you know, it's, it's aspirational. It wants to make a change. It rules tech. It's okay, well, how can we do this better? Second house in Pisces, which is, how you make money, it determines what your values and also how you deliver value. And for you your son in Pisces and being a designer, you know makes a lot of sense. And also then, the 10th houses, which is your public persona. And Scorpio's there. So it's about transformation. And having the sun in Pisces, and Pisces is the artist, it's the dreamer, it's realizing a dream, and realizing the dream, true transformation, because it is Scorpio. Scorpio is the sign that I see as being least resistant to change. You know, and the story in terms of, career for you is really around that bringing people along a journey for change, you know, it's the future of retail. How are we going to do this? And how do we do it in a way that makes commercial sense? How do we do it in a way that makes creative sense? How do we create experiences? So from your point of view I know that you spoke about this, you spent a lot of time with Lego as a child. Which is interesting, it's become an art. I'm saving grace. I spent a lot of time with my brother's Lego as a child and with his Meccano sets. And, you know, and it's sort of interesting in terms of how you can, when you're not learning that traditional way that you then focus your attention. I mean, I read the book of Michele Ciccimentali, Flow, when I was in my 20s, and suddenly life made sense. You know, it was one of those seminal moments of, oh, wow, this is, this makes sense. You know, this is how you go deep and you go broad. And for you here, your pioneering is in your third house, it's in Aries, and that's how you communicate. And it's communicating here, you've got Saturn, which is the planet of discipline, which is the ruler of your chart. And so there's a discipline in how you communicate, or you can bring a discipline to it, which is sitting right next to Venus and Venus is all about magnetism and it's all about beauty and how you see beauty and how you would. magnetize people towards you, how you magnetize it can be about money, it can be about sex, all of those things. But you're doing this to this lens of of Saturn. I mean, Saturn isn't so happy in Aries, but when you bring that discipline to it, and you seem to have this realization of, the discipline that that's so interesting to have that placement there. How does that show up for you? It's, it's it, it makes, it makes really, really good sense actually with the way you're talking with just listening to you. And I'm, I'm like huge confession. I really know very little about astrology, if not Nothing. I mean, and I've always been, I know exactly, I know where my chart is, I know exactly where I am. But I don't know what, how it shows up. And it's not with, for any reasons. It's just I don't know. I, I have no, I have no reasons why I'm not, I, I dunno about it. But I know that when you're, when, when you talk about it, there's a, there's almost like this amazing rationale that actually makes perfect sense to me. A while ago, maybe a few years ago, and I've actually redone it. It's a very scientific way of looking at how you actually work amongst other people. And it's like about an hour and a half worth of questions you're going to get to ask. And it works out whether or not you are a creative leader or a rational leader or pirate mind ends up being. And I ended up being referred to as a motivational inspirer. That was my overall sort of and it makes sense to me because I love, I love taking people on. A journey with, with me. And I love, I love encourage, I love exciting and enriching people and getting people excited and motivated, and it's just something I really enjoy doing. So and, a lot of the stuff that you're talking is starting to resonate with the kind of very rational scientific observations were done a, a while ago it was done for, for, for corporates, basically. And the way they do it is so that they can actually see. It's to kind of like scientifically analyze how people work from an emotional, it's kind of like making sense of ER essentially when you, so you understand your colleagues and they understand you and, how to actually deal with them. And I, and I, and I, what I'm saying is I'm actually seeing this. It's almost another way of looking at it. That's, it is another way of looking at it. And it's, I use the phrase of, you know, understand yourself because I sincerely believe you can't be a very good leader if you don't understand yourself. The yoga that I practice is Kundalini yoga and it's known as the super fast highway to awareness. And, with awareness comes the ability for to make a different choice. We can certainly go through various stages where you'd come up against something and you wouldn't. understand how you were landing for somebody else, or you wouldn't understand, where, as my father would say, how you rub up against somebody else. And by understanding, you know, yourself, you can create yourself, number one, and design your life as Vince Frost says. But it's also about, you know, really being in that way that you can Utilize, your superpowers and utilize your skills because, you know, Mars, which is in your 10th house, which is in your public persona is in Scorpio and Scorpio is ruled by Mars. So it's very, very happy there. And it's in that space of where, you know, it's, it's your ambition, it's your drive, it's your will. So it, you know, it speaks of having a, quite a strong public persona. You know, having strong leadership, your 10th house is very much what will you be known for? You know, what's your reputation? And as we know, reputations are built, you know, they're not something that as they say, overnight successes are, you know, take about 10 years. if not 20 or 30 years, and you're building, building, building. And you know, and you have Jupiter here in the ninth house, which is, about exploration, right next to Uranus, which is the disruptor, you know, and the ruler of your chart. is Aquarius here, which is ruled the traditional ruler of Saturn. The modern ruler of it is Uranus sitting right next to Jupiter, which expands that ability to disrupt, so that's a really interesting juxtaposition and coming here with the The south node, which is, you know, the gifts you're brought in from, we spoke about your parents and from, from your lineage. And so how you use that. So that's your comfort zone is in that exploratory space. You know, we come in beliefs, conditioning, some which really serve us and some that don't, but the idea then is for to move to our north node. and to integrate the South Node and the North Node. And your North Node is down here in your third house, which is about communication and communication in a pioneering way. You know, so it's quite interesting. And the three things that people talk about, I'm jumping around. We'll get to, we'll get to how this played out in your life and in a few minutes. But the three that people talk about is, you know, your ascendant, which is how you lead, which is, your projection, how other people experience you. And then there's your son and your son is really conjunct your ascendant. So they're, they're quite close together. And conjunct means that they're sitting next to each other, essentially. So you've got the dreamer and you've also got this, rebel, aspirational energy. And they are working together, you know, your son is your essence, like it's the deepest part of who you are. And like, and like flowers, like trees, like everything in nature, we grow towards our son. And then there's the moon, which is over here in your fifth house. And I always say that if your moon isn't fulfilled, there's always this relentless pursuit of more, you know, which is really the affliction, I think, of our society at present, is that this consumption, consumption, because people aren't fulfilled from an inside out base, they're constantly looking for external validation or external nutrition in a sense. And yours is in Gemini, so it's very much around communication and Gemini, the archetypes of Gemini are the entertainer, the jester, the storyteller. And for you, this is in the house of creativity and the house of play, the house of children, it's the house of where love affairs occur, like romance occurs or all of that. So, so, so it's important to kind of. Let this land. And then we'll talk about how your journey from, your journey from being an architect to your journey, you're the creative director of, of Woolworths, which is an amazing achievement and in South Africa, they have a number of different companies and you're leading this kind of future of retail, which is super exciting. So can you, See where you're, I'll give a little background on your, how that's tracked from one place to another. Yeah, sure. I mean, you know, the interesting thing about is that I found that I always want to try and reinvent myself if possible. I mean, I've, I've lived life as an architect at first. I've lived life as an interior architect and then creative director for a small company. And then designing specifically office space and commercial office space and retail space. And I've lived life as a retail architect. And then as a co director sort of giving direction and input and, Almost a creative council to a group of interior designers and architects in the retail world, which is at Woolworths. So many different things, and I've kind of, it's quite weird. I've got to a point now where I'm going like, okay, I'm like, what's next? And you speak about seven year cycles. It's really interesting because it feels like I'm getting to that point. Now it's pretty much seven years. And and I've worked in different countries. I've worked in Mauritius. I've worked in Australia, South Africa, obviously. So I really feel that I just want to keep moving and reinventing myself to point, but obviously within the same bolts on my skills. And I, and I love the idea of being challenged or being uncomfortable and disrupting myself. And I'm getting to that point now where I am just comfortable and would like to be uncomfortable. So I'm, something's happening. I don't know what it is, but I feel it, that makes any sense. So it's will be positive, but I know that for a while I'll be a little bit uncomfortable. And, and I love that. I love that out of comfort. It's amazing. And I think if you just are completely, you know, the most incredible thing is one thing I always talk about when I speak to young students or designers people say, like, what's that? Ask me, what are the, like, what are, what are the tools for design? And to me, the most powerful tool really amongst anything, it's not your pen or, you know, The stuff that you design with all your or design tools, it's purely confidence. And that really is. And if you have confidence in yourself and truth to your convictions, I really believe that you can do absolutely anything. So, and I, I've complete confidence myself. I may not be able to do something, but self fulfilling prophecies and sticking to your own intentions of your passion and confidence. Really will allow you to do pretty much anything as long as it's within your, I mean, I'm not going to go and solve medical problems or anything, but I mean, as long as it's in a design world or an inspirational design world or creative world, I really believe I can, I can segue into many different things. Well, the work that I do now is very much around brand strategy. And what I say to people is, is, you know, so it's a lot of personal branding And, and it's bringing together your, your skills, your gifts, your skills, your gifts, your education, and your experiences. And I think people often dismiss their life experiences, which are as important as their work experiences. And one of the things that I did learn because I've thrown the baby out with the bathwater a number of times is that your real differentiation and your real power and confidence comes from, from integration from the integration of everything that you've done and everything that you've learned. And how do you translate that into Whatever is next. And your north node, you know, here, shows 100%! Sorry, I'm jumping ahead. 100%! I mean, it's, and it's, it's, it's I'm sorry to jump in, but if it's just something that's, that is so, so critical in terms of, of, of how we lead life is it's, it's the sum of all parts of multiple experiences that all some sort of come together and it's, I almost see it from like the likes of yoga. When you start practicing yoga from the beginning, I mean, I just sort of be serious about it. Like maybe six, seven years ago it suddenly everything starts pulling together and you go. Wow, I never knew that I could get into that asana or movement or I never knew that I could do that. And you try to think, I've never practiced that, you suddenly realize it's just a combination of multiple experiences and multiple teachers and multiple, practices and hours and hours and hours, and suddenly it's just happening to you. Together. So I'm a firm believer in that. I, I love what you just said. Sorry to jump in actually. Not at all. I mean, and to share that, and yoga is a perfect example because, you know, I. I use yoga with my clients. I give them yoga meditation to do because it's the japa and the tapa, and the japa is the repetition and the tapa is you create heat and you create tension. And it's around increasing your capacity for it to hold stress, to hold creativity, for it to hold imagination, to hold courage, for it to hold your fear, for wealth, whatever it is that you want to apply yourself to. And, and that to me is the power of yoga. As they say, the, the work is on the mat. And then the meditation is how you're bringing that into your life. I think it takes, oh yes, yes, yes, well, you know, patience pays and, and Saturn is a planet here that takes 28. years, about 28 years to go around your chart. So the concept of it is, is that, you know, it will come back every 28 years. We have our first Saturn return around the age of 28, which is when we realized that we're adults. And, you know, we have to actually, Oh, take our place in the world without our parents but it is the time when we kind of go, Oh, what am I going to do with this wild and precious life? And then the next Saturn return is around 58 to 62. And some people get another one around 90, which you know, not many people make it to that one, you know, and so there's, so all of the planets will cycle and there's personal planets and there are generational planets. So there's inner and outer planets. So it's really interesting, the cycle for Venus is 584 days, which is, almost two years. And then you have Mercury, which goes three times a year. But it's so interesting. So for you, your trajectory from the major decisions you made for to move, from, okay, so I'm going to, work as an architect to then, I'll work within another agency to then I know that you're with Woolworths 19 years. I mean, which is. Mine is just blowing because you're absolutely right. It's like 28 years. I'm actually up to, I'm getting very close to 28 years cycle. And why am I feeling like this? I'm trying to, and it's like, just stop you telling me. It's just like, wow, sorry, I'm just just having a little mind blowing moments. Yeah. So But it's the joy of life. I mean, and with your practices, with the yoga and with the meditation, and I know that you get up and you bike every morning, and it's all of those things. So you're bringing this vitality and this energy, number one, to your own life. Well, you're also bringing it to your creative team, you know, and I can, I think this is something and a conversation that I had recently with a recruiter in the creative industry was, that the creative industry burns people out. And I think it's a really fine balance because most people go into creative because they're interested in creativity and that's what they want to do. And then they realize, you know, it's a commercial endeavor. And it's a strategic endeavor and, there's points where you go, okay, well, it's been strategized to death. Where's the room for my creativity? And very often, you know, I think it's much better now, but, the creatives can feel that their voice comes last. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I mean, the business of design is really not that easy. It's a complicated matter. And there's certain things that you can actually put into place to hold the fact that you never lose passion for design or passion for, for creativity. I mean, it's so, to me, that's so, so important. I mean, I remember once I went to a talk maybe 20 years ago, and it's something that I've actually just tried to maintain. Someone said that it was all around planning and strategic started dozzing and. I'm trying to arrange your, your life essentially. And one of the things they said is that never ever do anything strategic or logical or a sort of admin like first thing in the morning, because that's what first people do. They open their computers. I go straight to the emails and I start responding. I said, just leave that because people always get back to you always managed to get back to that. Spend the first few hours of your day. Being creative to dream and to actually come up with ideas. And I've tried to do that in many, sometimes it doesn't work, but I really do practice that as much as possible. And because your most important hours are the first few hours of the day, literally to like maybe 10 o'clock. So whether you're doing yoga or whatever, I mean, that's to me, yoga is a very creative thing, or it's your drawing or you conceptualizing and come up with some ideas. And then get onto the kind of the pointy end of the business part of the day, I think is, is, is a great thing. So it's amazing how it's important to kind of find ways of how not to burn out. So it's like in corporates. I mean, I've been working for a massive corporate, the only way that I've survived is by maintaining a massive sense of humor, because if you can't laugh at yourself and at people, then it's like, you're never going to. I get anywhere you just, and it's really, we're not, we're not, we're not saving lives. We're not doing anything. It's just, we're just selling stuff actually. So we're finding more creative ways and more ingenious ways and more productive and expressive and experiential ways of selling products, but it's just maintain a sense of humor. Yeah, no, I say that our lives are the compound interest on what we do every day. And, you know, our society really wants us to focus on what, you know, the title of that and how much money you're making and all of that, but it's who you're being. And so it's who you're being that determines, you really who you become. And it's like, what is the energy? What's the vitality? What is the creativity that you can bring to whatever activity it is that you're doing? Again, that is the interest you want to compound on because they, you know, as I say, you're only non renewable resource, I mean, I imagine you're at the point where you're going to, Oh, what's my legacy? Do you have, do you consider that? Yeah. Yeah, I really do consider what is my legacy? What have I done? You know, can anyone actually and it's getting to a point where I feel that I've got a lot of other interests other than Woolworths. I mean, I kind of have other creative endeavors that I get involved in to kind of just enrich my life. Otherwise, I'm, I just feel that I'm going to be very yeah. I don't ever want to feel that I'm even myopic and that's like really, really critical for me. So I believe that there's many other outlets that I can get involved in that are not going to affect my daily job. Or what I, you know, that my inputs and that really helps me a lot. And, and I do that for, for the main reasons that, that helps me build. My own legacy, and I think that's important because I've got to a point in my life where I've actually suddenly realized, and this is without any arrogance, I want to start worrying about Brand Criticos. Yeah. Because Brand Criticos is so important to my children and to what they, how they respect themselves. I have incredible respect for my father, like phenomenal respect for my father and, and my mother. And, and I want my, Kids do have the same thing. I've got a 17 year old son and a 13 year old daughter, and my son is about to get into the world of tertiary education, and I know that, you know, funny enough, he actually wants to study in Australia, which is a bit of a head slap, because we've just come back from there. But anyway and I, Feel that legacy is so critical because it imparts how you can share value with, you know, people that look up to you or you'd hope that they would look up to you. So that's what's I important to me is worrying about not just worrying about my day to day, but also worrying about where am I going. You know, I, I mean, I consider myself being able to give value for as long as I'm breathing and walking and thinking. I want to give value. I don't want to go. Right. I've had enough. I'm, I'm signing up.'cause I, I don't want to, I, I really don't feel that I, I would need to I think it, does that make sense? Yeah, no, no, absolutely. Well, I believe that we go through, we're apprenticing and then we know how to do the job essentially. So, you know, we're journeymen and then you, you go into mastery, but the only way you can maintain your mastery is for it to keep practicing, you know, and practice makes progress. And, you know, and I believe if we're doing this right, that we're always apprenticing to something new. You know, everything that is everything that we begin will end, but we're always apprenticing something new. And there's always other parts of our lives that are organized, you know, and that are running smoothly. Otherwise there's drama and who wants that? That's a waste of time. I would say drama is just a distraction. And then there's the delivery are the. are the ending of things, you know, so it is really moving through that cycle. So when you imagine, you know, your most audacious vision, which you have, it's rebellious, you know, you have, you have this energy within your chart, the pioneering, and also the the rebellious nature, what do you perceive, you know, is I think it's you know, I think whatever I'm going to do next will involve a lot more disruptive thought. That's what I'm trying to, what I'm, I want to do. And stuff that is. I want to try and do, be involved in stuff that hasn't been seen before, or stuff that's unseen as much as possible. And also the other thing which I'm, I'm really not fascinated, but it's something that I feel very strongly about is, You know, I, I sit within a world that's essentially very wasteful. You know, we're producing stuff to sell and sitting in the world, which is, I mean, the world has to operate and this is what we do. The world is based on retail. I mean, everyone's selling stuff. You know, you, you can't function without it. This is the modern world, but how can I be in a world that's trying to undo that or to try and find a way that's not. that's actually counteracting the world of being wasteful. And it's something that I am I have been working with a group of, of friends and like minded people and retailers where we're looking at building a, it's almost like a, a form of thought leadership around You know, the circular economy and sustainability and how that actually can start influencing retail and retail thinking. So I, I've got just, I don't want to divulge in too much. Cause I still have a job to keep with respect, but I, I just find that I've got too much on my mind and too many things that I love to be able to do using all my creative background thinking and experience. And the stuff, wonderful stuff that I've been I've learned through the years working in an incredible organization, Woolworths with incredible, incredible people as well and colleagues that have enriched my journey. So I, I just yeah, so that's, that's what I, all I can really say at the moment. I don't know where my journey is going. Is it going to be at Wilbur's? Is it going to be somewhere else? But I know that I'm in that kind of very inquisitive, part of my life. And it's not a, it's not a scary thought. It's a, it's a, it's like an, it's something that's like itchy. It's hard to explain. I'm not nervous. Well, if I look at your chart and I look at, you know, Jupiter is going over your natal moon, which is, which is in that fifth house, which is Gemini, which is, you know, asking those questions and it's very much around curiosity. You know, you're well placed for asking those questions. And I think it's important to ask those questions because there's certain skills. I mean, and I think this would be an interesting thing to speak about would be, you know, you learn particular skills by working with corporates. Like when I, you know, had my agency, my clients were Apple and Vodafone and, so big people and, you know, there were my bread and butter work. And then I worked with smaller people where you did more creative, more interesting work in many ways. But it was so good for, to see both systems and see how one is you've got to keep feeding the machine and then there's another where you're allowed for to, you get insights from working in that way for, to then be able to apply it in a more creative way where you have more control probably isn't the right word, but where it's, a smaller conversation. It's a local conversation. I mean, you know, large companies have to have scalable solutions. That's what makes them large companies and smaller can, you know, be more agile. And I mean, I think this is an interesting conversation around how do you maintain those values? You know, your personal values, you know, when you're working for those larger organizations. And aligning your values with that, because, it's always a challenge when you're working with large teams, because there's so many personalities, so many conflicting interests. Yeah, sure. I think that's, it's a very good question because it's something it's, a lot of people don't actually, Spend time actually trying to acknowledge or to try and understand how am I, why am I doing, why am I here for a start? And I'd really think that if, if you're in a company that your values don't align with the company, then I really think that you've got to be true to yourself and going, well, maybe I shouldn't be working for this company, or maybe I shouldn't be here at all, because is it really worth you know, your pound of flesh to actually sit in a place that's not aligned to yourself and your beliefs and your thinkings. And just carry on just for the sake of the fact that it's a job and, and it's a very, it's a very flippant thing to say, because, you know, people have to live and people need to survive. So then you're going to make money. So that's it's a case of like better the devil, you know, or the devil that pays you more. Sorry. That's a crazy thought. I haven't heard that saying before, but I do think that when you're younger and if you're ambitious, and I was certainly ambitious when I was younger, I wanted to, you know, experience it all. And I think it can end up in certain situations where you go Oh no, no, these are not my people at all. You know, and at one stage I was offered a job for, to work with a tobacco company. And I was like, no, no, no, I cannot do that. No. You know, and, and it's when you come up against your hard nose, I mean, again, in astrology, there's a woman called Carla and she talks about secret contracts and that, you know, we all have 12 archetypes and then everybody has four archetypes in common. And one of them is the prostitute, which I always maintain is seen in your second house. You know, which is like, what are your values and how you deliver value. And so what are you willing to sell, you know, for to, get the money or get the, get the title or get the whatever, you know, how will you come values and the journey from, the prostitute, is to sovereignty, and then there's another one, which is, self sabotage, which is very often seen in the Twelfth House, because it's what you can't see about yourself. And the journey from, self sabotage is to, again, is to where you are your own best advocate, or you're taking care of yourself. And then there's another one, which is, the child. And I think we all have that inner child that we learn we need to nurture and the journey from, from the child to the adults, so they're interesting to look at it, in terms of, branding and to look at that okay, so how does your archetypes play out for you, your second house. Is, is Pisces and Pisces can be, very much in that creation, that artist, but it's also the most compassionate of signs. So it can take care of everybody and forget that it needs to take care of itself. And I think that very often that, as a provider for a family and as the leader for a company, that can be something that I think people have to learn is boundaries and learn, you know, their clear yeses and nos. So I think, you know, the, the most important thing I think around well, it's my opinion or in a company around. Is that if you were, if you're, if you're good at what you do and you believe in what you do, and you know that, you know, you have, you have value that company should be able to value you for what you are and what you can give to the company potentially. And I mean, I think will this have been incredibly kind to me because they've realized, and well, they've respected where I am as a. Creative and as a, as a thinker is that I'm, I'm, I'm paid to pretty much do that. They know that I'm not particularly good at project management. So looking after people or leading people or managing people so that my, my, my role is shifted in certain ways to kind of facilitate that. And I think that's when companies are able to do that, I think they are so they can benefit themselves so much more. By actually playing to skill sets and skill strengths, because you're doing two things, you're doing one, you're doing amazing things for a company, but you're also doing amazing things for that person because you actually are respecting what their, their skill sets are and what makes them feel motivated and happy and enriched and to continue. And, and I think that's, that's so, it's so important. So, I'm also very true to my convictions. I will put my hand up and say, I'm sorry, I really can't do that. I'm not interested in doing that. And I'm not going to grade any value to yourselves because I cannot give you my full attention to it. But there's certain things that I know that are. absolutely are so excited to do or so engaged or enriched around what I do that I will stick my hand up and say, I'll do that. I'll help you with that. Or so I think that's really important. And I think that's so critical to, to success personal success and business success in design. So two questions. One is. That's amazing role modeling. That's extraordinary role modeling for your children is also extraordinary role modeling as a creative leader. And did you, did you always have that? Did you always have that confidence or that conviction or that courage? And I think courage is something that is sorely lacking in, many, many industries. I think it sort of started coming on a little bit late on in life when I, on our When I started as an architect, I was as a junior architect, you've got to pretty much do everything and all the really bad stuff. I mean, it sounds terrible, but like all the council work and all the kind of like, like very like brush, like sort of technical work and very transactional processes. And none of the creative stuff comes in. You never just given stuff to design and that can go on for years. And that's incredibly soul destroying. And I moved from, when I moved from architecture, I was offered a job with another company in interior architecture. And I was like literally thrown straight into a creative process. And as soon as that happened, like almost like my world just exploded in front of me. Like, like, it was like a reawakening. I couldn't believe it. And the, my boss at the time just gave me Like I had autonomy the first time it was remarkable. And I think when you have that, then confidence builds. And, and you, you, you. When confidence builds, then you can, and you can actually impart that to other people as well. You can, when people see that you're, that you're motivated and passionate and excited about things, it's, it's contagious. It really is. And if you can use that contagiousness with other people and bring them along with you to the, along the journey, suddenly you've, you've got a bigger, bigger crowd and you've got a bit more contagiousness, if that makes any sense. So what age, what age were you when that happened? When you're around 25, 26, you know, 27, 27, that sort of age. Just coming into that process and return. I'm not, I'm just, as I said it, you just think, Oh my God, I can't believe this. This is like sorcery. Well, it's four, when you think about it, it's four cycles of consciousness. And what consciousness means is essentially is that you're becoming more into your own awareness, more into your own. I've actually got it. I'm actually thinking back. It was exactly three. The age was exactly 28. It was 28. It was the age. And then, okay, so, so we go with that. There's a Uranus opposition that happens around the age of 42. So what midlife crisis happened around the age of 42? Around that age, you know, it's nothing. Yeah, I was I kind of, I think at Woolworths, I had a promotion at that age. And it was, and I, I pushed for it myself. I just said, I think I need to do this rather than that. And and I was given a promotion. I've created a new position for myself and started traveling more and engaging more and being a lot more. Yeah. So I think, and, and getting a lot more design autonomy, a lot more autonomy in what I was doing. So that was incredible. Yeah, that's really what it was. And I think from that age to right now, it's just been a kind of a not really a rollercoaster, but just a kind of a smooth And certain plateaus and a couple of kicks and then plateaus and this is where I've got to the point where I'm going like, oof, okay, things are feelings and there's something that's itchy, as you said, as I previously said. Yeah, well, there's always points where the itchiness occurs and it will be an astrological cycle, it will be moving you towards change, you know, asking you to reflect and review. And we are in, you know, in a mercury cycle at this point in time, which is a new idea beginning to form and with the practices that you have with meditation and with yoga through clearing your own subconscious. You, you know, you create yourself as a clear channel, you allow those ideas to come through you and you're not in the space of where. Most people want to maintain the status quo because they're afraid of change. It's around, okay, well, oh wow, what's the next adventure? Mm. Mm. Yeah, that's, that's where I am. That's fantastic. You know, that's a very exciting place to be. And it's a very exciting place to feel, that you're equipped for that and you're ready for that. You know, I mean, I often say that those without tools are fools, and so many people You know, as you say, they get up straight away in the morning and they're looking at their screens and they're on their email and they're problem solving straight away or their crisis management. And, as soon as they get really stressed, their exercise program goes out the window And so I think that, you know, you having learned. you know, those self care practices has stood you in extraordinary. The most amazing thing is if I can just go back to my parents is that my father is a physicist. He's an incredibly creative man. I had an aunt an aunt who is a graphic designer. And a book binder from England. And she, and, and, and she, she's a, and, and one of, I mean, I have incredible memories with from, of her, and I, and I have a lot of learnings from her on a creative level, and I did a lot of I worked for her as a student in her graphic design company, learning basically learning how to do typesetting, and back in the days when we were waxing bromides and, Lining up and understanding from a physical point of view, how, like how curling work before computers, you know, I mean, I was, you know, I think we were better at hurting before computers. Yeah, exactly. A hundred percent. I mean, that's the most amazing thing. And just. The stuff that I'm part from my father's side of the family versus my mother's side of the family. My mother comes from a father who was from the Navy and he was an incredibly disciplined and incredibly stoic man. And I think that I've kind of got this combination of the fact that I'm ADHD and I have an artistic background from my father's side, I've got almost this like very stoic understanding of why things fall into place. And I set disciplines for myself because I think they, and I absolutely adore your, the points of discipline or freedom, like how actually, well, the freedom where it comes from discipline, et cetera. And I just love that, that, that, that notion. I think I mentioned to you. One of the famous quotes from Ogilvy was over the, over the freedom of a top brief. I mean, it's just an incredible thought. And, and one thing, I mean, like certain things, like. Waking up and making your bed in the morning is your first task. And you've done that's one discipline and then making sure that you've got seven minutes to yourself to do a meditation or setting something for that. All of those things actually just mark and be clear your mind that they really do. And I, I get that from my mother. My mother will catalog everything in life and her house is an absolute, I mean, she's a librarian. So her house is an absolute triumph of like. Organized organization. I organize things in terms of how they look and how I want to make my space feel beautiful and incredible. And I've got that sort of thing, but I'm not disciplined as much as my mother, but I get the kind of slightly organized chaos from my father. So I love the balance that it's brought to me. I'm not it's just, it's just a wonderful balance essentially. And so I'd like to talk about about experiential design. And, experiential design is how you feel as you go through a space. And it's very much around that emotional resonance. And we live in a society that very much thinks that we're just heads walking around, you know, everybody's so in their head. And, and the most important thing we can do is to really bring it back to the somatic, you know, for it to be in our body, because when you're fully in your body, you always know what to do. And that's the, The feeling, the intuition, the knowing, like a trusting that, you know, what, you know and so for you, you have practices that bring you back into your body because in your astrology, you've got more air than anything else, which is a mental, busy, thinking, energy which is the ADHD, so do you want to speak to that a little about how the intuition and the somatic works with The with the mental activity, thought leadership. Yeah. Yeah. I almost feel that I need safeguards around myself to actually get me to do things because I mean, otherwise I would just be a dreamer and then I would spend my life procrastinating the dreams that will never go to anything or the fact that I have a lot of energy so that when I sit down to work, I will get up after three minutes of trying to do something and then walk around to think about something and come back to my desk and then forgotten what I was actually working for in the first place. And then suddenly, Oh, look, look what's outside. So, so what I do is I have to have a safeguard against that. So what I do, I make sure that I exercise and do sports or whatever it might be to actually. Clear some of the energy so that my, my other energy, which is in my head is able to work on what I'm, I'm doing. So those are kind of like, I've got various safeguards in astrology, that would be seen as the energy has to go somewhere, you know, which is the Mars energy, which is in your 10th house, the top of your chart. And that is, and it's, and it's sitting right next to Neptune and Neptune is either imagination. Our confusion, you know, so it can be delusion, our confusion and our imagination and it's how are you going to channel it. And in yoga, you move the energy through your body. So then when you sit down to meditate, you can actually sit still. So a hundred percent. So it's actually took me, and I love that notion of yoga, and it's taken me years to actually understand what yoga was for. And when you first started doing yoga, you think, Oh, it's all these amazing moves and I'm getting strong and fit and all the rest of it, and you suddenly realize, no, no, no. It's 90 minutes of that to get to a point where you can actually sit and focus and meditate and get your mind to go somewhere else completely clear without any other, any other distractions. And, and that's what it is. I mean, this is why yoga started for that particular reason. But you only realize that after a very long time of doing yoga, you don't get given a script at the beginning, right? This is why you're doing yoga. Because I think. If that, if you got that script, people just turn around and walk out the door. I don't think that most people get to that point of realizing it, to be perfectly honest. No, they don't. And they don't. And you know what the most amazing thing is? After all these years, I can still only sit and meditate for about two to three minutes. But that's plenty in my opinion, I mean one day I'll get to 15 minutes, maybe 30 minutes. But there's yogis that can meditate for hours on end. How remarkable, but I mean, it's the journey. Well, kundalini yoga, we do active meditation, so you're very often in the space of where you're holding a posture. And so, you know, and as a consequence of holding a posture and you're focusing on a Because there's 84 meridians on the roof of your mouth and you're programming your brain So I think it's actually. Is it an easier meditation? No probably harder. Actually, most people don't do constantly because it's too hard. But what it does is within three minutes, you change the chemistry of your body. Within 11 minutes, you're working on your nervous system. Within 22 minutes of meditation, your three minds have come together and you begin to be in that space of neutral mind. And it's 31, really, before you actually sit into that space of completely opening up. And, you know, two and a half hours is fantastic, and three minutes every day is amazing. You know, I always say to people, start with three minutes. And to recognize how hard it is to rock up and do that three minutes every day. So I think meditation and ADHD are almost on the opposite ends of the spectrum, which is so amazing. I mean, it's like, they are amazing, but it is, but it's an amazing tool. You know, meditation isn't a tool for creative people, you know, because we do need a system of filtering, filtering all that we're consuming. It's amazing. And filtering all the possibilities, you know, and my rising sign is Pisces, your sun sign is Pisces, and it's that space of, you know, it is the dream where you, Pisces wants to escape into the ether, it wants to stay in the imaginal world, It's a very, it's interesting. So I think I, I mean, I think we could continue to talk for many an hour. But for to wrap up the conversation, What's the most audacious dream? My dream? Okay, you've just given me a blank page. Okay, so let's go. Okay, okay, I'll give you that. So the audacious dream with the, with the constraints of making it real. I mean, When you look at, you know, how you've built your life and how you've built your practice to this point in time, where is what I call the gravitational pull taking you? That's probably a better question. I want to be able to enrich lives as much as possible through everything I've learned up until now. And through, whether it's through, and it's particularly through design and through creative thoughts, And through creative leadership, I really want to enrich lives. And, and this is where I was talking around sustainability and circular economy, we can enrich lives through that. And you can solve that through design. It might be through another form of experiential design and I can enrich lives through that as well. It's, it's something that I, I feel that. It could be through education as well. I mean, I actually really, I've given a couple of lectures and I've spent quite a lot of time with universities and with colleges as a visiting lecturer or like as the odd talk external examination, et cetera. It's when I do it, it's so incredibly rewarding. So I find that Been able to add value to people's lives or add value to any form of experience, whether it's education or something similar to that or sustainability or retail or hybrid might be, or pulling it all together. That's my, my, my, my dream to, to enrich further to build on that. Whether it's where I am or whether it's as an eponymous brand we'll see. And the discipline, you know, the discipline that you've learned, because I think this is one of the misnomers or the misconceptions of living a creative life is that people See it as creativity and sure. Why I, I love polarities, which is why it is called the discipline of freedom it's that. And freedom is created by narrowing choice and, and really stepping into that space of conviction and commitment rather than by widening the choice. You know, I think this is, discernment is one of the most important words. in a creative person's dictionary. Absolutely. It's been an absolute pleasure. Is there anything else that you'd like to add? Is there anything else you'd like to ask? To add that I've absolutely thoroughly enjoyed this. It was quite an amazing awakening for me. It's actually. It's given me some more insight into where I'm going. Surprisingly, I really was not expecting that. So it's, it's been extraordinary. I don't know what else to say. And I mean, I think, and thank you for the opportunity. I hope that it's benefits yourself and someone else. And cause it certainly has. It benefits me immensely. So thank you. Thank you very much. Oh, and thank you. And the idea of this podcast is so that it benefits creatives who are out there, wanting to create their lives with discipline for, to create their freedom. So that's the whole concept, so they realize, that, okay, you've got faith and you can choose how to live it. Thank you. so much. Have a lovely evening. And I forgot to ask but you can find Nick. At Nick Kritikos. You can find Nick. On LinkedIn at Nicholas criticals. Are, you can find him on Instagram as Nico crit, N I C O C R I T. And critical it is. T C R I T I C O S. So thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. If you enjoyed it, please. Be sure to follow and share it with your fellow creatives. It's how these conversations expand and grow. So there are two ways to work with me. You can book a brand strategy workshop, you could also book an Astro brand blueprint session to explore my one-to-one coaching. You can find out more on my website. Alish, appreciate.com. And on Instagram. At Eilish. Appreciate thank you for listening. And until next time. Wishing you a wonderful day.